最贵国产酒敖云之酿酒师访谈

文:陆江(Maxime LU)

说到中国最贵的,也是最国际化的国产精品酒,世界第一奢侈品集团LVMH集团旗下的云南香格里拉出产的敖云葡萄酒(AOYUN),现阶段是名至实归的。它和某些国产酒厂的走特定渠道的自嗨型高价酒不同,敖云葡萄酒已经在伦敦和纽约等国际精品酒主力市场直面消费者,已经历了不少国际著名酒评人,大师的品鉴考验,也进入了包括BBR在内的一线酒商渠道,以及Liv-Ex伦敦葡萄酒交易所,也在中国市场开始推广和零售。当然由于其高昂的销售价格(人民币两千多元,约合300欧元的国内零售价),在国际国内葡萄酒市场引发了较大争议。

Speaking of the most expensive and most international wine now made in China, the first on the list should be Aoyun wine (AOYUN) produced in Yunnan Shangri-La by the world’s top luxury group LVMH. Many other domestic wines claimed to be the same,but we know they are just good at amusing themselves and access to only some special channels。While AOYUN is different,it has been tested by the consumers from London to New York fine wine market,approved by many international wine experts and specialists,accepted by the strongest wine merchants including BBR and Live-ex,and finally entered into Chinese market. Nonetheless,we have to admit its price is high(more than 2000RMB,300 euros around),that’s why it arouse so much controversy in domestic and international wine market。`

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我从2014年就开始关注LVMH的敖云酒庄这一项目。LVMH集团本来就是精品酒业巨头,有白马、滴金、Domaine des Lambrays、Krug、香槟王等大牌顶级精品庄,种植酿酒实力强悍,推广和渠道资源也是无与伦比的。LVMH做这款酒的目标就是打造成奢侈品级的精品酒,这对提升中国葡萄酒在国际上的声誉是有颇多好处。

I have been following LVMH Aoyun winery since 2014. LVMH Group has always been a fine wine industry giant, owning such as Chateau Cheval Blanc、Chateau d’Yquem 、Domaine des Lambrays、Krug and many other super top wine brands. This time LVMH also plans to create a luxury boutique wine,which actually could benifit all Chinese wines by enhancing their international reputations。

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简单介绍一点敖云酒庄信息:

LVMH为了寻找合适的葡萄园就探索了4年,最终确定在香格里拉,梅里雪山(6800米海拔)附近,湄公河边。

酒庄葡萄园的日照条件由于地势阻挡,每天8-9小时,和波尔多相比是偏少的,不过导致了有很长的生长季,使酚类物质,酸度和糖份能较好地实现同步成熟。波尔多从开花到收获一般是100-120天,而敖云这边的葡萄园可达140-160天。

葡萄园完全是靠手工剪枝管理,总面积约28公顷,分布在4个村子,交通极为不方便。海拔高度约为2200-2600米,土壤和微气候有很好的多样性。葡萄园被分为320个小地块,平均面积约1.3亩,每年每公顷约需要3500工时来管理维护。当地以藏民劳力为主,语言和文化差异会是沟通的很大障碍。

Simple background information about Aoyun
It took LVMH four years to find a perfect vineyard. Finally they chose the site in Shangri-La, near Meili Snow Mountain (6800 meters above sea level), and beside the Mekong River.
The daylight hours in the mountains is only 8-9,less than that is in Bordeaux。It results in a long growing season, giving enough time for phenols,acids and sugars to ripe. The flowering period in Bordeaux is generally 100-120 days, while in Aoyun vineyard it could be up to 140-160 days.

The pruning and managing work is all done by hand。Traffic is a disaster。The vineyard,with a total area of around 28 hectares,2200-2600m above sea levels,is distributed in four villages and divided into 320 little plots(one plot covers an area of 1.3 acres on average)。Every hector requires about 3500 hours of manpower to manage。People who work in the field are mainly local Tibetans who have their own cultures and habits。It’s very difficult to communicate with them。

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就像前面提到,现在国内外市场上关于敖云葡萄酒的价格争议很大,我在此也无意评说价格是否合理,毕竟消费者会用手中货币进行投票。我这次有幸采访了酒庄的首席酿酒师Maxence Dulou,并且尝到了这款风云之酒,下面分享一下采访内容和我对这款酒的酒评词和评价。

As mentioned earlier, at present the way Aoyun priced its products remains controversial. I wouldn’t judge it, but leave it to the consumers. What I will do is to share with you my experience of a serious Auyun tasting. Besides, it’s so lucky for me to get a chance to interview Maxence Dulou, the chief winemaker of the winery.

首席酿酒师Maxence Dulou2013年搬到云南加入团队,现在全面负责酒庄种植和酿造。  

Chief winemaker Maxence Dulou,live in Yunnan and work with the team since 2012,now is in charge of all the viticultural and winemaking work.

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您对中国其他葡萄酒产区有何评价?

我去过山东,这两年还曾去过两次宁夏,在那里喝到过一些非常不错的红葡萄酒,并感受到品质较之以往有很大提升。他们也各自存在着一些问题,山东夏季降雨多,太潮湿,葡萄很难达到理想的成熟度,会有一些生青的味道,发展有机种植难度会很高。宁夏日照充足,糖分成熟度比较好,但是单宁成熟度和酸度上会有一些欠缺,且冬天太冷,葡萄藤需要埋土,不过整体水准上已经很出色了。 

What do you think of other wine regions in China?

I’ve been to Shandon, and Ningxia twice in the past two years, where I had many quality red wines and do feel its big improvement. Nonetheless each of them has their own problems. In Shandong, there is too much rain, the weather is so wet that the grapes cannot achieve desired maturity, but with some green flavor. It would be difficult to develop organic there. While Ningxia is always sunny, the grapes are able to accumulate enough sugar in the harvest season,but lack acidity,and their tannins cannot ripe enough. It is very cold in the winter, so grapes need to be buried to keep warm. But overall it seems fairly comforting.

您觉得气候原因造成酒体的不足之处,可以用哪些技术来弥补呢?

对所有的产区来说都是一样,如果真的有天灾来临,那酿酒师也并没有太多办法,只能坚强以对。云南这边的气候,六月到八月变化比较大,但每一年从九月中旬到十月末的收获季总是阳光充足且十分干燥,葡萄能达到良好的成熟度。

这样的气候适合施行有机管理,所以我们采取有机种植方式,尽量减少人为干预,让葡萄自己逐渐适应并培养出应对恶劣自然气候的能力。因为采用有机管理,葡萄园管理中主要用到波尔多液和牦牛粪。

我们目前在当地还只有三年的种植经验,四年的酿酒管理经验,如想要完全掌握产区的微气候变化,需要更多时间和工作。

In your opinion,what technologies can be used to make up for the inadequacy caused by the weather?

It is the same to all the regions that if there is a real dizaster, the winemaker could do nothing but learn to be strong. The weather varies considerably from June to August in Yunnan。But when it comes to the harvest season, generally from mid-September to the end of October, everyday is sunny and dry, and the grapes can achieve satisfying maturity.

This kind of cliamte is suitable for the implementation of organic management, so that’s what we do there: use Bordeaux mixture and yak manure only in the vineyard; try to minimize human intervention as possible as we can so that the grapes can gradually adapt themselves to the environment and be able to cope up with all the harsh weathers.

Currently we have only three years cultivation experience and four years operation experience there. We need much more time to master all the micro-climate changes discipline in the production area.

你们的葡萄园位于海拔高度两千多米的地方,夏天光照应该会非常强,你们会有特别的葡萄园管理技术(架型、修剪等)

我们采用VSP架型,在整个葡萄的生长季节都会保留叶子,在转色期间会将朝向东面的叶子剪掉一些,朝向西面的叶子则由于下午光照太强烈,为避免伤害葡萄而保留。 但每一年的气候都不一样,还是要根据实际天气采取具体的疏叶措施。比如今年六月多云,就不用剪那么多,也减少了我们的园内工作量。当然,和法国不同,厚云层虽然会有一些阻挡阳光的作用,但对葡萄成长并不会产生显著影响——因为我们海拔太高了,云层有时在我们头顶只有100米左右(有时甚至还会在我们下方),总有阳光能穿透云层洒进葡萄园,所以葡萄还是能达到非常好的成熟度。

Your vineyard is 2000m high above sea level, thus sunlight would be very strong in the summer. Do you have any special vineyard management techniques (framing, pruning, etc.)?

We use VSP model, which keeps the leaves all through the growing season and cuts some in the veraison period. The leaves facing southwest will always be kept to protect grapes from strong sunlight. The climate varies every year, so pruning work must be done depending on conditions. For example, this June is cloudy, which means we don’t need to cut too much. Unlike France, thick clouds will weaken the sunlight but will not block it,nor have any impact on the growth of the grapes. It is because we are in such a high altitude. The clouds are sometimes only 100 meters above our heads(and sometimes even below us). Sunlight can always find a way to penetrate the clouds into the vineyard to ripen the grapes.

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关于酒庄未来发展,有何计划?

技术层面来说会进行不同方向上的尝试,比如种植更多葡萄品种、比如葡萄园内一些修剪、植草工作的调整以及尝试使用中国的陶罐进行发酵等等。

What are the plans for the future development of the winery?
We’ll make new technical attempts such as cultivate more grape varieties, improve the pruning and grass planting work, use Chinese pottery in the fermentation and so on.

听说2013年份敖云葡萄酒就使用了您刚才提到的这种陶罐效果如何呢?

我们首先有大约40天的浸皮(包括酒精发酵)。随后要进行二次发酵(苹果酸乳酸发酵)时,我们40%的酒会使用法国新橡木桶,剩余部分按照常规,会使用旧橡木桶,但从法国引进的话,因为交通不便等原因并不可行,若从中国临近产区采购旧橡木桶,由于所使用的酵母不同,而且会有可能的不良细菌携带,会对酒造成污染,所以找一种比较中性的,不会为酒添加任何风味但也没有坏影响的陶罐做代替,是个很好的选择。从现在看结果还是令人满意的。这些陶罐是全新的,是当地用来盛装中国白酒的陶土罐。

It is said the Chinese pottery you just mentioned have been used in making 2013 vintage of Aoyun Wine. Does it work well?

We had 40 days maceration(including fermentation), and then moved into second fermentation ( malo-lactic fermentation). 40% new french oak is used at this stage. The rest used old barrels as we normally do. But it is impossible for us to bring in barrels from France due to the inconvenient transportation. Nor could we purchase any old ones from nearby production areas, as different yeast may carry bad bacteria and cause contamination. Thus we chose to use a nuetral container, which could not add any floavor to the wine but will not add any bad effect either. The pottery was by far a satisfying choice. They are brand new,and use to hold local spirits.

敖云是否会进行人工灌溉?

加州和澳大利亚会使用滴灌,葡萄需要多少水,就给它多少水,葡萄的根系在50公分左右,但这样会造成地表土壤过硬。敖云没有采用滴管,敖云的葡萄根系可以扎到很深,长达3米左右,这样就能从地下吸取更多水分。所以在生长季节可以完全依赖自然降水来补足水分,不需要人为灌溉。在干燥的冬天有时会进行小范围的漫灌,既达到灌溉效果,又能避免大范围的土壤板结问题。

Does Auyun use manual irrigation?

In California and Australia,the grape roots are bout 50cm long, people use drip irrigation, which means, you give grapes the exact amount what it needs. But drip irrigation will make the surface soil too hard. While in Ao Yun, the grape roots are up to 3 meters, so they can absorb more water from soil and need no irrigation. Natural rainfall is enough for them. In dry winter, we do small range of flood irrigation from time to time. In this way, we can both offer waters to the vine and avoid soil hardening.

哦?能达到3米的根系,敖云不完全是用年轻藤吗?你们是怎样控制葡萄出产品质的?(陆江)

我们把五、六年的葡萄藤叫做年轻的葡萄藤。但是酿这瓶酒的葡萄已经十五年的藤龄了,在我们买下这里之前,已经有当地的农民在这里种下了葡萄。前两年我们做了很多研究,并在去年(2015年)种下了一些葡萄,这些葡萄苗还需要一些时间才能正常出产。但是我们面前的这瓶酒,是用根系深达3米的十五年藤上长出的葡萄酿的。我们现有的葡萄园里,有一半面积都是十五年以上的葡萄藤。(葡萄酒在线)

过去农民是采收葡萄后按重量卖给当地酒庄,你可想而知,他们唯一重视的就是产量。我们来了以后,通过翻译,指导村民进行耕种工作。对葡萄产量和品质进行完全控制。之前老葡萄藤是没有经过砧木嫁接的,我们新种下的葡萄则有做嫁接,一是为了更适应当地土壤,提高葡萄品质;二是为了预防根瘤蚜虫。虽然目前还没有虫害出现,但如果出现,后果不可想象。目前酒庄还处于探索期,我们分析土壤成分、结构、土质……,并选择最适合的砧木。另外如果嫁接后品质确实有明显提升,我们将会对老藤部分进行重新替换种植。

3 meters’ roots? I thought Ao yun had only young vines? How do you control the quality of the grapes? (By Lu Jiang)

We call five or six years old vines young vines. But vines used to make this bottle are already 15 years old. There are many local farmers who planted grapes in this area far before we purchase the estate. At the first two years, we did a lot of research and finally planted some grapes in the last year (2015). These baby vines need time to produce qualified grapes for wine. However, the wine in front of us is made by grapes from 15 years old vine with 3 meters’ roots. 15 years old vine took half of the area of our current vineyard.

In the past, farmers sell grapes to the winery by weight. So you can imagine, the only thing they care about is yields. After we came, we tell the villagers how to work through an interpreter, stay in complete control of quality and rationalize ourselves. We did a lot work here, for example we introduced rootstock grafting. Fisrt, this can improve grape quality. Second, it can prevent Phylloxera——no signs of it now, but once it occurs,it would be a disaster. We analyze the composition and structure of the soil and chose the most suitable rootstock. If the rootstocks do improve the quality, we’ll replant all the old vines.

所以你们其实从很久之前就已经研究这里的葡萄园

是的,虽然我们2015年开始种植葡萄。但其实自2012年我们就已开始与政府进行沟通工作,2008年就在开始研究这片土地了,至今已8年。

So actually you have studied the vineyards since long ago?
Yes,we started to plant grapes in 2015,but begun to communicate with local government since 2012,and have been studying the field since 2008,8 years ago.

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目前葡萄园中都栽种了哪些品种呢?

主要是赤霞珠、品丽珠、梅乐、小维多,和少量试验中的品种。此外也有计划尝试栽种更多品种,比如西拉和马尔贝克,具体还未确定。

我(陆江)追问一句:“葡萄苗和宁夏的夏桐(LVMH在华另一酒庄)一样,也是从中粮集团的葡萄苗木基地采购?”。 “是的!”。

Currently how many varieties are planted in the vineyards?
Mainly Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Merlot,Petit Verdot and some tested verities. Besides that, we planned to try Shira and Malbec, but stays undecided.

Does Domaine Chandon Ningxia purchase from COFCO Corporation Grape Seedling Base too?( By Lu Jiang)

yes!

在敖云进入市场之前,你们都做了那些考量?

在发行上市之前,我们首先反复确认酒的品质达到了我们理想的状态,表现稳定,也送给许多国际重量级的酒评人品尝。他们回馈确认这是他们喝过具有独特个性和辨识度的赤霞珠,也是中国最好的葡萄酒。至此我们才决定将它推向市场。

How do you determine if it is the time for Aoyun to come into the market officailly?
Its quality has been repeatedly confirmed that it can meet our strict requirements. Its performance is always stable. It is widely praised by all the international heavyweights in wine industry whom we sent the wine to. They all recognize it as a unique and great Cab, and the best wine in China. At this point, we thought we are ready to bring it to the market.

从您的角度来说说敖云的特点。

对于赤霞珠的全新演绎,酒色深邃,兼具新鲜水果和成熟水果的香气特质。当地的风土气候赋予它新鲜感和活跃酸度。很多人第一次闻到果香的时候会想到波尔多的波亚克,相似的雪茄、烟草和雪松。但也有人觉得像是来自加州,果味充沛,酒体饱满。对于我来说,它介于它们二者之间,单宁传达出我所期待的结构感和优雅度。总之,我们想要的不是一款迎合市场的,强壮有力的酒,而是一款复杂精致,能够忠实传达风土,代表这神圣山区的酒。

Could you describe Aoyun from your point of view?

It’s the new interpretation of Cabernet Sauvignon. Deep color, with both fresh fruit and ripe fruit characteristics. Freshness and lively acidity is from the unique terroir. Many people would think of Pauillac the first time they smell it,with similar aroma like cigar, tabacco and cedar. While someone find it more like California wines, very fruity, delicious, full-bodied. For me it’s somewhere in between. The tannin is as elegant and structured as I expected. In a word, we don’t want to cater to a growing demand fo strong wines, but a sophisticated and graceful wine, the wine that can represent the sacred mountain and its terroir.

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敖云的品鉴词(陆江):

敖云AOYUN 2013

黑色成熟水果的果味充沛,还有紫罗兰和西方香料味道,透出一丝烟熏和黑巧克力气息;重酒体,酸度活跃,果味主导,单宁强且有明显收敛感,但质地成熟很细致,口中整体平衡,有不错的集中度和长度,后段收尾能感到微微的酒精感,余味长,有烟叶,香料气息。15度的酒精,Ph值是3.55。

口中感觉还是新世界酒,不过的确是细致风格。平心而论,品质不错。至于价格是否合适,无论是LVMH的解释:“成本极高,超过了白马和滴金。”,还是一些评论人士:“价格已经赶上白马,Opus one等,太不合理”,还是看市场表现吧。

Tasting (By LU JIANG)

Intense with ripe black fruit flavors, violets and western spices, revealing a trace of smoke and dark chocolate. Full-bodied and crisp, fruity-forward, with strong and converged tannins and delicate texture. Balanced, in the last part you can feel it slight alcoholic. Tobacco and spices can be found in the long finish, Alc.=15%, Ph=3.55

You can still tell that it’s from new world, but indeed elegant. I must say it’s good. As for the price, you can listen to either LVMH ( because of the high cost, more than Chateau Cheval Blanc and Chateau D’yquem) or some critics(almost as expensive as Chateau Cheval Blanc and Opus one, so unreasonable), or just keep quiet, wait and see how it will behave in the market.

采访撰稿人陆江(Maxime LU):

– 曾任Decanter亚洲葡萄酒大赛(Decanter Asia Wine Awards),意大利南部葡萄酒大赛(Puglia)、葡萄牙葡萄酒挑战大赛-Wines of Portugal Challenge(Lisboa)等国际国内葡萄酒大赛专家评委;

-《葡萄酒在线-WINEONLINE.CN》创始人和专栏撰稿人;

– Decanter中文版, Prowein中文版等主流业内网站和媒体专栏专题撰稿人;

– 资深葡萄酒收藏顾问;葡萄酒行业咨询顾问。

 

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